Ep. 1 The Ick
What White Collar Work Is Actually Doing to Us
You're not burned out because you're weak — you're burned out because the system was designed this way. This isn't a self-help episode. It's a reality check — and the beginning of something better.
IN THIS EPISODE
You already know something is wrong. Maybe it's the Sunday dread, or the way your stomach drops when your boss Slacks you at 9pm, or the creeping feeling that you've given everything to a job that could disappear tomorrow. In this first episode, Aparna and Lars name what most of us have been too scared, too busy, or too gaslit to say out loud. They dig into the real data on white collar layoffs and disengagement, expose the moral compromises baked into everyday corporate work — from Project Nimbus to ICE contracts — and get into what all of this is doing to our bodies, our families, and our democracy.
TAKE THIS WITH YOU
Listen to your body this week. In your next meeting, pause and ask yourself: what does my body feel right now? Notice your posture, your jaw, your breathing. You don't have to do anything with what you find — just track it. Your nervous system has been paying attention even when your brain checked out.
Name it to change it. This week, resist the urge to treat your work stress as a personal failing. The layoffs, the moral compromises, the exhaustion — none of it is because you aren't resilient enough. It's structural. And structural problems need collective responses.
RESOURCES
Bullshit Jobs: A Theory — David Graeber. The anthropologist who argued that corporations have convinced us being busy is morally virtuous — and what that's done to us. https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Bullshit-Jobs/David-Graeber/9781501143335
Ruined by Design — Mike Monteiro. The core idea: the world is working exactly as designed. If it's broken, that's on us. https://www.ruinedby.design
No Tech for Apartheid — The worker-led campaign of Google and Amazon employees organizing against Project Nimbus. Follow them, support them. https://www.notechforapartheid.com
Coworker Solidarity Fund — Financial support for the 50+ Google workers fired or arrested for protesting Project Nimbus. Donate here. https://coworkerfund.org/get-funded/googlers-fund-application
Gallup: U.S. Employee Engagement Sinks to 10-Year Low — The data behind the decade-low engagement numbers: only 31% of U.S. workers engaged in 2024. https://www.gallup.com/workplace/654911/employee-engagement-sinks-year-low.aspx
Gallup: State of the Global Workplace Report — The broader annual report on global engagement, wellbeing, and what it's costing us. https://www.gallup.com/workplace/349484/state-of-the-global-workplace.aspx
Stanford Business School research on workplace mortality — Studies linking toxic workplace environments to over 120,000 deaths per year in the U.S. and 5–8% of annual healthcare costs. https://www.inc.com/scott-mautz/new-stanford-research-says-5th-leading-cause-of-death-is-workplace.html
McKinsey Health Institute — Research showing toxic workplace behavior is the single largest predictor of negative employee outcomes — more than twice the impact of all positive practices combined. https://www.mckinsey.com/mhi/our-insights/present-company-included-prioritizing-mental-health-and-well-being-for-all
CONNECT WITH US
Aparna on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/aparnarae
Lars on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lars-gallien
Got an ick? Got a hope? We want to hear from workers. Send us your story — written or as an audio recording — to pod@circleback.club. We'll weave your voice into the show.
Want to bring this conversation into your organization? Aparna and Lars speak at HR conferences, Fortune 1000 ERGs, and philanthropic foundations. pod@circleback.club
New episodes every week. Follow Circle Back Club so you never miss one.
Full Transcript
Aparna: Hi everybody. Welcome to the first episode of the Circle Back Club. I'm your host, Aparna Ray—a public school teacher turned three-time entrepreneur. I love connecting the dots between data systems and stories, and I am obsessed with building a better, more intentional future of work. The place where most of us spend most of our days should not feel like a punishment. Before we go any further, let me introduce my co-host, friend, and colleague, Lars. Thank you for being on this journey with me.
Lars: I’m so grateful to do this with you, Aparna. It’s been amazing to see how you’ve been obsessed with the future of work throughout your entire career. Hey everyone, my name is Lars. I am a leadership development facilitator and a somatic coach. I’ve spent my career working with corporations to navigate interpersonal and cross-cultural complexity. I specialize in sitting with people in those gray, scary spaces. As a human, I often feel more than I know. I care about helping corporate workers listen to their bodies—which we’ll talk about today. I am also essentially a golden retriever who will chase any ball you throw at me. I’m ready.
Aparna: Having a podcast these days feels like what having a newsletter was five years ago—everybody seems to have one. So, why should people tune into ours?
Lars: That’s a good question. What matters to us?
Aparna: We’ve been talking for a couple of years about creating the space we needed as we transitioned from entry-level work to mid-career leadership and, eventually, entrepreneurship. Most of us entered our jobs with an implicit contract: if we work hard and create value, we receive certain rewards—a steady paycheck, healthcare, benefits, and a 401k.
But is that actually happening for people anymore? It’s become obvious lately that this contract isn't being honored, and that isn't a personal moral failing. The system has convinced us that our worth lives in our productivity, our titles, and our ability to push through exhaustion with a positive attitude. That system is broken. To create something new, we need to process what has been and what is. Many of us, amidst social and political turmoil, are realizing that office jobs can be just as precarious, exploitative, and worthy of collective action as any other work.
Lars: Yeah.
Aparna: So, what are we going to do here? We’re going to trace the origins of white-collar work. I know you’ve been researching the deliberate shifts post-World War II, moving away from producing things people need toward forcing the consumption of things nobody wants—like "Yacht Water," which is just canned water.
We’re also going to explore what your body knows that your mind hasn’t caught up to yet: the teeth grinding, the "Sunday Scaries," and that feeling in your stomach when you see your boss’s name on Slack at 9:00 PM. We’ll dig into the cost of being the "perfect employee," the harm we’ve normalized to climb the ladder, and why the concept of being a "great worker" is often a lie. We’ll expose why self-advocacy can feel like smoke and mirrors when a corporate hand is pressing down on the scales. We’ll talk about what personal branding and networking organizations are actually selling you, because a "seat at the table" isn't always the answer.
We’ll name the scarcity and fear underneath it all—the terror of losing status or stability. We want to learn from people already building alternatives: organizers and workers who have said "no thank you" and created real solidarity instead of corporate ERGs that often exist to make you feel heard without changing anything. This podcast isn't "Lean In" with better lighting. We are trying to fundamentally reimagine work in a world that isn’t trying to extract every drop of our humanity for profit. This conversation matters to everyone—in corporate, nonprofits, government, or philanthropy. Are you ready to jump in?
Lars: Let’s get into the "ick" of work today. I’m feeling nervous but ready. First, we’ll look at the data on today’s reality for "knowledge workers"—anyone with a desk job. We’ll cover the major moral challenges in modern work and how the data aligns with what we’re hearing from workers who feel like something is off. Finally, we’ll get personal and talk about how modern work impacts our health, relationships, and wellbeing. This might be hard to hear because we’re naming the reality of these conditions, but our hope is that you’ll come through this feeling less alone and interested in collective change. If we name it, we can change it.
Aparna: "Name it to change it." This will be a data-heavy episode. I’m obsessed with data, but I feel like naming facts has become a political act lately, so in some ways, this episode is very political. We’re doing a "State of the State" for knowledge workers.
I want to start with a story about Patricia, an older millennial working as a marketing director in Austin. She spent two decades building a career she was proud of. In January 2025, she was laid off. Over the next few months, she sent out 150 applications for leadership roles and received only two interviews.
Lars: You experienced this too during your sabbatical last year. It's rough out there.
Aparna: Patricia told me, "I never thought this would happen to me. I used to feel in control of my career, and now I’m constantly refreshing LinkedIn, hoping for a lead." That story made me feel physically ill because it isn’t unique. It’s the story of an entire class of workers right now.
Lars: So, what’s actually happening? The market feels spooky.
Aparna: A lot has shifted. Data shows that one in four American workers who lost their jobs in 2024 worked in professional and business services—white-collar roles like accountants, consultants, and project managers. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that nearly a quarter-million white-collar jobs were cut between May 2024 and early 2025. We saw a 17-month continuous decline in jobs, something rarely seen outside of a recession.
Furthermore, 277,000 federal workers lost their jobs in the past year. By June of last year, Black women specifically had lost 300,000 jobs. About 40% of all DEI roles created between 2020 and 2022 were eliminated, and the tech industry has shed a quarter-million jobs in the last two years. Amazon alone recently laid off 16,000 people. Tech CEOs are now openly talking about doing "reductions in force" (RIFs) every year or two at double-digit percentages. Shockingly, 25% of all unemployed people right now are white-collar workers with four-year degrees.
Lars: It goes back to Patricia’s story—the implicit promise of security for those with degrees and titles is wobbling, even for those who still have jobs.
Aparna: Exactly. Even if you have a job, something feels off. Gallup says employee engagement in the U.S. is at a 10-year low. We’re also seeing "9-9-6" work trends (9:00 AM to 9:00 PM, six days a week) from India and China coming to the West. I worked that schedule in India in my thirties; even with domestic help, it wasn’t great for mental health. We don't have that level of support here.
Only 31% of workers feel engaged, while nearly one in five are "actively disengaged"—meaning they might be undermining their colleagues because they feel unseen and undervalued. The steepest decline in engagement surveys was in response to whether anyone at work cares about them as a person or encourages their growth.
Lars: That’s a fundamental human need. Not having that investment in your growth hurts.
Aparna: It hits our youngest workers, Gen Z, the hardest. They often feel disposable, like a resource rather than a human being. Then you add the "return to office" (RTO) wars, and the absurdity multiplies.
Lars: The RTO push is confusing. During COVID, we redefined productivity and blurred the lines between work and life. Now it feels like they want to grip that control even tighter.
Aparna: It’s a mess. Even governments and philanthropy are mandating RTO for roles that don’t require it. For example, when JP Morgan Chase announced an RTO policy, employees flooded Slack with criticisms—and leadership simply shut down the comments.
The kicker? JP Morgan reported record profits of $58.5 billion while operating on a hybrid model. The model was working by their own numbers, yet they pushed RTO anyway. When surveyed, eight out of ten companies admit they lose talent as a direct result of RTO mandates. While 44% of people say they would comply with a five-day mandate, 41% would start looking for a new job, and 14% would just quit. This isn't just "bumpy post-pandemic adjustment." It’s leaders telling us: "We don’t trust you, we want to own your time, and if you don’t like it, there’s the door."
Lars: We smile in all-hands meetings and talk about "strategic refreshes," but it's an "ick." It’s your humanity telling you that something isn't right. We asked for listener submissions about their work "icks," and I want to read one:
"Corporate hierarchies based on fear are an immediate ick. I once joined a company where everyone was 'scared-scared' of the CMO. I just scheduled time with them, asked questions, and realized they were just a human being. Fear doesn't produce innovation; it produces compliance and burnout."
Aparna: "Compliance and burnout." Wow. Let's switch gears and talk about what companies are doing in the world while we’re sitting in performance reviews.
Go back to 2021—the pandemic showed millions of us that remote work actually worked. Productivity was up, carbon emissions were down, and people had time for their families. Remote work was a massive win for people with disabilities and chronic illnesses, too. Yet, in boardrooms, powerful men didn't see a healthier society; they saw a loss of control.
I remember being deep in a client engagement for a large organization. They wanted 67 versions of a board deck over two months. That deck was presented at a board meeting for exactly 12 minutes. Twelve minutes to discuss the fact that 60% of their employees were looking for other jobs. The irreverence of the bosses and my own quiet humiliation stayed with me.
Lars: The performance of it all is maddening.
Aparna: These aren’t isolated anecdotes; they are symptoms. I found a book by anthropologist David Graeber called Bullshit Jobs. He argues that corporations have convinced us that being busy is morally virtuous. We treat a full calendar like an achievement. Instead of letting technology reduce our work hours, we invent new roles and more meetings. Graeber says pointless work is profoundly demoralizing.
I remember billing that client $27,000 for those 67 versions of a deck and feeling guilty. That money could have been pay raises for workers earning less than a living wage. Graeber’s point is that pay isn't tied to social value—it’s tied to power. The people doing the most essential work—teachers, nurses, sanitation workers—are often the most underpaid.
Lars: We’ve built an economy on that inversion. While we’re running ourselves ragged on "Version 87" of a deck, companies are doing things in the world that we are often asked to ignore.
Take "Project Nimbus," a $1.2 billion contract Google and Amazon signed with the Israeli government to provide AI and cloud services used for mass surveillance and military targeting. When employees organized to protest, Google fired 50 people. One engineer said, "I refuse to build technology that powers genocide or surveillance," and was fired three days later.
Aparna: Google’s response was essentially, "This is a workplace, not a place for your values." It’s wild that the response to ethics is termination and legal fees.
Lars: It’s not just Google and Amazon. Palantir has a $30 million contract with ICE. Many Fortune 500 companies have active contracts supplying ICE with software and hardware. Over 1,300 Google workers recently signed a petition opposing these contracts.
Aparna: Imagine if 20,000 workers signed it. You can't fire 20,000 people.
Lars: Exactly. We’re trying to create that momentum. These companies pitch mission statements about "making the world better," but we have to ask: "For whom?"
Aparna: Most white-collar workers aren't choosing complicity; they are so deep in the machine—focused on OKRs and deliverables—that they’re structurally prevented from seeing the full picture.
Lars: Graeber would say that’s by design. Exhausted people don’t have the bandwidth to question what the company is actually doing. When people do raise their hands, they are often isolated or silenced. This isn't cultural misalignment; it’s a system protecting itself.
Aparna: Once you see it, you can't unsee it. Our nervous systems have been tracking this even as our brains try to keep us out of it.
Lars: If you can, take a breath. Imagine the day before you return to work. What do you feel? Many of us feel a tightening or resistance. That’s your nervous system preparing for a shift in being. When we ignore those signals, there is a literal cost to our health.
Aparna: Years ago, I noticed I’d leave bruises on my hand from clutching it so hard during stressful weeks. Grinding teeth, stomach issues—our bodies are so far ahead of us.
Lars: It’s not dramatic; it’s communication. I became a somatic coach because I saw what happened when people overrode their bodies—they got sick and lost the ability to act with kindness. We’ve been trained to be "resilient," but I hate that word.
Aparna: Research shows that teaching "resilience" in a toxic environment is not the same as fixing the environment. Resilience-washing—like yoga subscriptions or the Calm app—is just a pressure valve. A pressure valve is only useful if someone is also turning down the heat.
Lars: What does that "heat" cost? Stanford researchers estimate that over 120,000 deaths per year in the U.S. are associated with how companies manage their workforce. Toxic environments are linked to 5-8% of annual healthcare costs. McKinsey found that toxic workplace behavior is the single largest predictor of negative employee outcomes. "Yacht Water" won't offset a bad manager. Employees in toxic environments are 35-55% more likely to have major diseases like heart disease or diabetes.
Aparna: So many women I know struggle with autoimmune disorders or gut health due to work stress. Then there's the invisible problem of parents coming home depleted. In education, we talk about ACEs (Adverse Childhood Experiences). Exhausted parents have less capacity for warmth and play, which affects the next generation. ACEs are being called a major unaddressed public health threat.
When people are this worn down and disconnected, we see a rise in unhappiness, political polarization, and resentment. CEO pay is up 1,000% since 1978, while the federal minimum wage has been stuck at $7.25 for 20 years. This affects our health, our kids, and our democracy.
Lars: It’s a shared experience. We can learn from blue-collar workers who fought for better conditions. Your body knows before you have the language for it. This podcast is here to help build that language.
Aparna: We’re also going to have fun! This data-heavy level-setting won't be every episode.
Lars: Take a second to notice how you feel right now. You don’t have to do anything yet—just recognize the feeling.
Aparna: We want to close every episode with one small, doable human thing you can do this week. Lars?
Lars: Practice listening to your body. Next time you’re in a meeting, ask yourself: "How does my body feel right now?" Track your internal language. Your body is your most honest ally.
Aparna: My takeaway: don't treat your suffering at work as a private problem or a personal failing. Talk to other people about what’s happening. We need each other.
Lars: And eat lunch with someone this week—not a working lunch. Ask them something real, like, "What do you care about?" or "What’s giving you the 'ick' right now?" Just connect.
Aparna: If you don’t have anyone at work you feel safe enough to eat lunch with, sit with that realization. That’s what we’re unpacking this season.
Lars: Next week, we’re doing a little business history story time. We’ll trace how white-collar work became what it is today, from the 1970s to the rise of the consumer economy.
Aparna: If this episode resonated with you, please share it with one person who might be sitting at their desk right now feeling this way. We want to hear your stories—your "icks" and your hopes for work. Email us at hello@circleback.club. We’ll see you next week. This is the Circle Back Club.
Lars: Cue the jazz.
